i think that parting shot of yours is a bit unfair. Like saying Distaste for baseball = distaste for the players. I’m sorry but i find this kind of behaviour immature. Good and intelligent post on the whole though.

When anime gets a hold of male characters and turns them into sketches or archetypes, it glorifies and makes them larger than life. All too often it does the opposite with women, marginalizing them. That, if you are a girl watching the show, is not something to aspire to. It’s not about reality at that point: it’s about which direction you travel from reality.

THIS. So much! Thank you for this comment, because it really gets to the heart of the issue of male archetypes versus female archetypes. There are negative male stereotypes too, of course, but even the grossest oversimplification of male traits tends to be seen in a more positive light than that of female traits.

I enjoyed reading your post and the comments after – interesting discussion! And, I’m just glad that someone else is discussing issues such as these in a mature, thoughtful manner. I think that your intention is really awesome and commendable.

I do have to wonder, like a commenter above, though, what your definition of a “real” woman is. I think that what you are trying to say, is that women in anime fall into character patterns that are demeaning to women, and don’t generally portray fully realized, three-dimension women with “real” thoughts, emotions, desires, ambitions, identities, etc – apart from their relationship with men. And I’m entirely with you there – although there are plenty of counter examples and examples of extremely strong, independent women in anime. (I’m glad someone above mentioned Integra Hellsing from Hellsing, because she is my anime hero!)

@AnnoyedAnon – I know you probably won’t ever read this, but I really couldn’t NOT respond to your comments.

Why is it that we can’t have a discussion about female archetypes without discussing male ones, too? In the reverse situation, would you also argue in a post about male archetypes that you can’t have a discussion of them without female archetypes? Somehow I doubt it. Saying that you “aren’t being fair to the men” derails the intent of the discussion, which doesn’t have anything to do with male characters or their stereotypes (of which there are plenty, of course). There is no reason that we can’t have a discussion of female archetypes, and to say that you can’t “because you didn’t mention the men” is being wholly unfair to the subject which otou-san is trying to bring to light.

As to your other point, there is so much good in analyzing entertainment media for things like this! It’s exactly this kind of criticism that can lead to people thinking about the media they consume, and thinking about the kind of ideas and stereotypes they propagate. Would you say that it’s not worthwhile to analyze 40’s and 50’s era American cinema for the racial stereotyping that went on, as well as filmmakers that were trying to subvert it? What about now? If anime continues to portray women in a negative light (and others, too! Racist stereotypes abound in anime, alongside gender stereotypes and others) and no one questions it, will it ever stop? If no one stops to think, hey, maybe we shouldn’t be encouraging shows that only show one type of female character, then we won’t ever progress to a point where we won’t need these discussions.

Being critical of the media you consume is part of being a smart consumer and aware of the cultural influences that surround you. If no one ever questioned the way women were treated in American media, you’d never see a black woman on tv, or a female doctor, or a female firefighter, or any other sexist stereotype-breaking women. Blindly accepting these issues as “trivial” is an immature way to think, and I commend otou-san for thinking and writing critically about them.

My last parting shot is this: distaste for feminism = distaste for women. “Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.” Cheris Kramarae and Paula Treichler