When anime gets a hold of male characters and turns them into sketches or archetypes, it glorifies and makes them larger than life. All too often it does the opposite with women, marginalizing them. That, if you are a girl watching the show, is not something to aspire to. It’s not about reality at that point: it’s about which direction you travel from reality.

THIS. So much! Thank you for this comment, because it really gets to the heart of the issue of male archetypes versus female archetypes. There are negative male stereotypes too, of course, but even the grossest oversimplification of male traits tends to be seen in a more positive light than that of female traits.

I enjoyed reading your post and the comments after – interesting discussion! And, I’m just glad that someone else is discussing issues such as these in a mature, thoughtful manner. I think that your intention is really awesome and commendable.

I do have to wonder, like a commenter above, though, what your definition of a “real” woman is. I think that what you are trying to say, is that women in anime fall into character patterns that are demeaning to women, and don’t generally portray fully realized, three-dimension women with “real” thoughts, emotions, desires, ambitions, identities, etc – apart from their relationship with men. And I’m entirely with you there – although there are plenty of counter examples and examples of extremely strong, independent women in anime. (I’m glad someone above mentioned Integra Hellsing from Hellsing, because she is my anime hero!)

@AnnoyedAnon – I know you probably won’t ever read this, but I really couldn’t NOT respond to your comments.

Why is it that we can’t have a discussion about female archetypes without discussing male ones, too? In the reverse situation, would you also argue in a post about male archetypes that you can’t have a discussion of them without female archetypes? Somehow I doubt it. Saying that you “aren’t being fair to the men” derails the intent of the discussion, which doesn’t have anything to do with male characters or their stereotypes (of which there are plenty, of course). There is no reason that we can’t have a discussion of female archetypes, and to say that you can’t “because you didn’t mention the men” is being wholly unfair to the subject which otou-san is trying to bring to light.

As to your other point, there is so much good in analyzing entertainment media for things like this! It’s exactly this kind of criticism that can lead to people thinking about the media they consume, and thinking about the kind of ideas and stereotypes they propagate. Would you say that it’s not worthwhile to analyze 40′s and 50′s era American cinema for the racial stereotyping that went on, as well as filmmakers that were trying to subvert it? What about now? If anime continues to portray women in a negative light (and others, too! Racist stereotypes abound in anime, alongside gender stereotypes and others) and no one questions it, will it ever stop? If no one stops to think, hey, maybe we shouldn’t be encouraging shows that only show one type of female character, then we won’t ever progress to a point where we won’t need these discussions.

Being critical of the media you consume is part of being a smart consumer and aware of the cultural influences that surround you. If no one ever questioned the way women were treated in American media, you’d never see a black woman on tv, or a female doctor, or a female firefighter, or any other sexist stereotype-breaking women. Blindly accepting these issues as “trivial” is an immature way to think, and I commend otou-san for thinking and writing critically about them.

My last parting shot is this: distaste for feminism = distaste for women. “Feminism is the radical notion that women are people.” Cheris Kramarae and Paula Treichler

Do you mean to say that a “real” woman is definitively the equivalent of a strong female character? That’s just not the case. Both men and women can be both weak and strong.

Evangelion’s characters are called realistic because they don’t conform to that sort of fallacies. They aren’t SUPPOSED to be strong; they’re flawed and screwed up, just like the males.

In several of the conversations during EoE this comes up — I don’t feel like looking it up now, but Asuka says something like “You’re afraid of Rei and Misato, so you come for me.” That may or may not be what Asuka actually thinks (it probably is, but it might not be her actually saying it), but it accurately represents Shinji’s mindset at the time. At that point in the show he doesn’t want a fully realized human being to know and respect — he just wants someone to give him simplistic and unconditional affection, and he doesn’t particularly care who. Actual social interaction and the intricate nuances that define real people are precisely the things he’s afraid of.

Character development like this is one of the most interesting parts of NGE, but it’s a mistake to see the characters as realistic or even original. There are certainly no role models in Eva.

So, where in anime do you see real “girl power” as you put it? Haibane Renmei is full of realistic and strong (mentally/emotionally of course, not physically) female characters. I’d also argue for Kino to be included on the list, though her ambiguity toward her own gender might disqualify her. Cardcaptor Sakura has a few that might fit (though they’re children, not women), and it has excellent characters in general.

Its all about catering to your demographic. Harem is aimed at men, so they make it more fanservicy and usually have the underdog as the focus of the harem. Shounen is aimed at both genders so the characters have to appeal to both. Yaoi/bishounen media is aimed at women so the characters are appealing to them. Its part of any like industry. Look at american tv. For the most part the men and women are unrealistic because its more appealing for the audience.

You picked 3 examples from Neon Genesis Evangelion and briefly gazed over other similar characters, whereas you picked specific characters to make your point.

There is no point in over analyzing an entertainment media for trivial things like this. So a few characters don’t act the way you want them to. Tough luck, that is the point of their character. Would the characters evolve the way they have without the woman in a role to enable them to do so? Why do you get to dictate what is or is not a real woman? I have known a few that fit both sides of the stereotype.

You just see a couple that you don’t like and think that you have the right to say what a real woman should be. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe you are the one with the unrealistic stereotype?

Anyway blame stumble and my natural distaste for anything sounding like feminism. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against equal rights for all, but that’s the problem: equal must be equal for all. Take a look at anime aimed at a female audience and you will see some other stereotypes that effect the male characters. It is not a one way street, it goes both ways. Understand that before you make some conceited statement like this.