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	<title>Comments on: How to fix the industry, part 5</title>
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	<link>http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2008/07/28/how-to-fix-the-industry-part-5/</link>
	<description>You're only as old as you feel. damn...</description>
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		<title>By: Shameful Otaku Secret! &#187; Aaaaaaaaaand&#8230; Fixed.</title>
		<link>http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2008/07/28/how-to-fix-the-industry-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-870</link>
		<dc:creator>Shameful Otaku Secret! &#187; Aaaaaaaaaand&#8230; Fixed.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/?p=661#comment-870</guid>
		<description>[...] CCY: Try a new ad-supported model. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] CCY: Try a new ad-supported model. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: houkoholic</title>
		<link>http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2008/07/28/how-to-fix-the-industry-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-850</link>
		<dc:creator>houkoholic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/?p=661#comment-850</guid>
		<description>Ad-driven model won&#039;t work right now - even most reports has stated that online ad revenue isn&#039;t going to really take off for another couple of years (2010-11), and most (all?) of that money isn&#039;t going to go into anime, here in Japan the ads on TV anime are just ads paid for by the producers of the same anime - it&#039;s self-advertising.  There is hardly any advertising value in most anime even in its homeland.  Things like Code Geass is like the exception of exceptions.

Also even when sponsership does get rolled in somehow, what Pizza Hut thinks is ok to be associated with in Japan doesn&#039;t apply to what Pizza Hut in America thinks (didn&#039;t they edit out the Pizza Hut reference for Code Geass for American release?), so that&#039;s another huge hurdle to jump if you want to do some sort of simultaneous release.  

It&#039;s really easy to just say &quot;hey do ad support!&quot;, but in reality, doing paid download is probably much more realistic for the majority of the anime work that is being released right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ad-driven model won&#8217;t work right now &#8211; even most reports has stated that online ad revenue isn&#8217;t going to really take off for another couple of years (2010-11), and most (all?) of that money isn&#8217;t going to go into anime, here in Japan the ads on TV anime are just ads paid for by the producers of the same anime &#8211; it&#8217;s self-advertising.  There is hardly any advertising value in most anime even in its homeland.  Things like Code Geass is like the exception of exceptions.</p>
<p>Also even when sponsership does get rolled in somehow, what Pizza Hut thinks is ok to be associated with in Japan doesn&#8217;t apply to what Pizza Hut in America thinks (didn&#8217;t they edit out the Pizza Hut reference for Code Geass for American release?), so that&#8217;s another huge hurdle to jump if you want to do some sort of simultaneous release.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s really easy to just say &#8220;hey do ad support!&#8221;, but in reality, doing paid download is probably much more realistic for the majority of the anime work that is being released right now.</p>
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		<title>By: jpmeyer</title>
		<link>http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2008/07/28/how-to-fix-the-industry-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-849</link>
		<dc:creator>jpmeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/?p=661#comment-849</guid>
		<description>Damn, can&#039;t edit.  Anyway, the other thing that I wanted to bring up is that &quot;teenagers&quot; is also a really broad age range.  In New York anyway, I don&#039;t think you can work until you&#039;re 15 and you can&#039;t drive until 17 (making it harder to work).  For a while, what teenagers are really spending is their parents&#039; money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn, can&#8217;t edit.  Anyway, the other thing that I wanted to bring up is that &#8220;teenagers&#8221; is also a really broad age range.  In New York anyway, I don&#8217;t think you can work until you&#8217;re 15 and you can&#8217;t drive until 17 (making it harder to work).  For a while, what teenagers are really spending is their parents&#8217; money.</p>
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		<title>By: jpmeyer</title>
		<link>http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2008/07/28/how-to-fix-the-industry-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-848</link>
		<dc:creator>jpmeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/?p=661#comment-848</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t see advertising working.  Using the stats that Crunchyroll gave at their AX speech, only 1/3 of the viewers are in the US, the average age is 21 (and nobody is older than 34), and people only watch for about 15 minutes.  Let&#039;s say a video gets about 100k views.  I&#039;m not seeing a &quot;views&quot; count on Crunchyroll for any videos (I checked Strike Witches and Druaga), so that number comes from one of the recent episodes of Macross Frontier which had about that many downloads at scarywater.

Immediately throw out 2/3s of those for not being in the US.  Down to about 33k.  Then throw out 2/3s of those as teenagers with no money.  Down to about 10k.  Then, since the average person doesn&#039;t necessarily watch the whole thing, let&#039;s say that the average viewer only watches 1 of the 3 ads (basing this on how Hulu spaces its ads).

I also crunched the numbers on my own spending, and even after paying the (crazy NYC inflated) bills and my student loan, I&#039;m making still making 20% more than I had been before any expenses as a student from part-time work.  And of course, I still had expenses as a student, like food, books, and transportation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t see advertising working.  Using the stats that Crunchyroll gave at their AX speech, only 1/3 of the viewers are in the US, the average age is 21 (and nobody is older than 34), and people only watch for about 15 minutes.  Let&#8217;s say a video gets about 100k views.  I&#8217;m not seeing a &#8220;views&#8221; count on Crunchyroll for any videos (I checked Strike Witches and Druaga), so that number comes from one of the recent episodes of Macross Frontier which had about that many downloads at scarywater.</p>
<p>Immediately throw out 2/3s of those for not being in the US.  Down to about 33k.  Then throw out 2/3s of those as teenagers with no money.  Down to about 10k.  Then, since the average person doesn&#8217;t necessarily watch the whole thing, let&#8217;s say that the average viewer only watches 1 of the 3 ads (basing this on how Hulu spaces its ads).</p>
<p>I also crunched the numbers on my own spending, and even after paying the (crazy NYC inflated) bills and my student loan, I&#8217;m making still making 20% more than I had been before any expenses as a student from part-time work.  And of course, I still had expenses as a student, like food, books, and transportation.</p>
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		<title>By: otou-san</title>
		<link>http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2008/07/28/how-to-fix-the-industry-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-847</link>
		<dc:creator>otou-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/?p=661#comment-847</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Speaking of speed, Xam’d subs are faster than even raws! It’s not the first time ever but it probably is a first time ever for a TV-anime-like anime series.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This makes me jealous of your Playstation. At any rate, I share your skepticism but it can&#039;t be ruled out. Like I said, ad-supported content pays my checks and as Kabitzin says, it only takes one right move to change everything. No one would have thought Hulu was possible just a couple years ago either.

&lt;strong&gt;Anonymous&lt;/strong&gt;, like I said in the post, I don&#039;t think I buy the poor-teenagers angle either. I bought a lot of records, CDs, movies, etc. when I was a teenager with no rent, mortgage, car, bills, etc. etc. But the fact that they pirate anyway doesn&#039;t negate them as customers, especially in an ad-supported model. Advertisers LOVE to get in front of that internet-savvy, spendy-spendy young demographic, so if they&#039;re not paying for the Gonzo-style downloads and streams, get them that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Speaking of speed, Xam’d subs are faster than even raws! It’s not the first time ever but it probably is a first time ever for a TV-anime-like anime series.</p></blockquote>
<p>This makes me jealous of your Playstation. At any rate, I share your skepticism but it can&#8217;t be ruled out. Like I said, ad-supported content pays my checks and as Kabitzin says, it only takes one right move to change everything. No one would have thought Hulu was possible just a couple years ago either.</p>
<p><strong>Anonymous</strong>, like I said in the post, I don&#8217;t think I buy the poor-teenagers angle either. I bought a lot of records, CDs, movies, etc. when I was a teenager with no rent, mortgage, car, bills, etc. etc. But the fact that they pirate anyway doesn&#8217;t negate them as customers, especially in an ad-supported model. Advertisers LOVE to get in front of that internet-savvy, spendy-spendy young demographic, so if they&#8217;re not paying for the Gonzo-style downloads and streams, get them that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2008/07/28/how-to-fix-the-industry-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-846</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/?p=661#comment-846</guid>
		<description>&gt;What some companies like Gonzo are doing right now with same-day paid downloads is a good stop-gap, but a majority of anime viewers can’t take advantage of this, if you consider that many are teenagers with little to no ability to pay for things online. Taking advantage of this massive audience will be the big challenge for the industry.

Teenagers have TONS of spending money, though. That&#039;s one of the largest markets today, a multi-billion dollar industry. Designer clothes, sneakers, MTV, Playstations...these are the sorts of things teenagers spend money on frivilously while pirating anime.

Sorry, but if you want to make an expensive and hard to produce product like animation, it needs to be actually paid for. Anime studio&#039;s won&#039;t get anything out of targetting an audience that has no money, and, even if they did, would be too self-entitled to actually pay for anything. If we see a rise of moe, non-general appeal anime in the future days, it&#039;s not going to be because &quot;moe is cheaper to make&quot;...it&#039;s because moe otaku fans care deeply enough about their anime to actually pay for and support it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;What some companies like Gonzo are doing right now with same-day paid downloads is a good stop-gap, but a majority of anime viewers can’t take advantage of this, if you consider that many are teenagers with little to no ability to pay for things online. Taking advantage of this massive audience will be the big challenge for the industry.</p>
<p>Teenagers have TONS of spending money, though. That&#8217;s one of the largest markets today, a multi-billion dollar industry. Designer clothes, sneakers, MTV, Playstations&#8230;these are the sorts of things teenagers spend money on frivilously while pirating anime.</p>
<p>Sorry, but if you want to make an expensive and hard to produce product like animation, it needs to be actually paid for. Anime studio&#8217;s won&#8217;t get anything out of targetting an audience that has no money, and, even if they did, would be too self-entitled to actually pay for anything. If we see a rise of moe, non-general appeal anime in the future days, it&#8217;s not going to be because &#8220;moe is cheaper to make&#8221;&#8230;it&#8217;s because moe otaku fans care deeply enough about their anime to actually pay for and support it.</p>
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		<title>By: omo</title>
		<link>http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2008/07/28/how-to-fix-the-industry-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-845</link>
		<dc:creator>omo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 18:09:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/?p=661#comment-845</guid>
		<description>Speaking of speed, Xam&#039;d subs are faster than even raws! It&#039;s not the first time ever but it probably is a first time ever for a TV-anime-like anime series.

All of that is to just say, yes, if companies wanted to, they can release stuff and get money for it in a way that satisfies fansub viewers. The question is how to make it work. And for us the question is also &quot;is it even feasible&quot;? My opinion is that it&#039;s not feasible with an ad model right this moment. Unless you are Pizza Hut.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of speed, Xam&#8217;d subs are faster than even raws! It&#8217;s not the first time ever but it probably is a first time ever for a TV-anime-like anime series.</p>
<p>All of that is to just say, yes, if companies wanted to, they can release stuff and get money for it in a way that satisfies fansub viewers. The question is how to make it work. And for us the question is also &#8220;is it even feasible&#8221;? My opinion is that it&#8217;s not feasible with an ad model right this moment. Unless you are Pizza Hut.</p>
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		<title>By: Kabitzin</title>
		<link>http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2008/07/28/how-to-fix-the-industry-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-844</link>
		<dc:creator>Kabitzin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/?p=661#comment-844</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;For example, who is going to pay to get their advertisement in a segment of anime?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Pizza Hut</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>For example, who is going to pay to get their advertisement in a segment of anime?</p></blockquote>
<p>Pizza Hut</p>
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		<title>By: Kabitzin</title>
		<link>http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2008/07/28/how-to-fix-the-industry-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-843</link>
		<dc:creator>Kabitzin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/?p=661#comment-843</guid>
		<description>There are any number of ways to work around this.  Ads can be used to subsidize a subscription cost.  Omo brings up good points, but all it takes is one company to really get it right so that everyone else can copy the model.  

And one thing I want to address: fansubs are not fast.  They are generally faster than official releases (by several orders of magnitude), but the truth of the matter is that you are still about a week behind the raws, even with the best of fansub groups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are any number of ways to work around this.  Ads can be used to subsidize a subscription cost.  Omo brings up good points, but all it takes is one company to really get it right so that everyone else can copy the model.  </p>
<p>And one thing I want to address: fansubs are not fast.  They are generally faster than official releases (by several orders of magnitude), but the truth of the matter is that you are still about a week behind the raws, even with the best of fansub groups.</p>
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		<title>By: omo</title>
		<link>http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/2008/07/28/how-to-fix-the-industry-part-5/comment-page-1/#comment-842</link>
		<dc:creator>omo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.shamefulotakusecret.com/?p=661#comment-842</guid>
		<description>Ad-supported stuff is great, but at the same time it doesn&#039;t always work. Looking at the various revenue models, ad-supported broadcasts have some limitations which makes it difficult to work with most anime that we know of. Namely, it&#039;s hard to make enough money to justify it.

And that&#039;s not even going into the problem with advertising itself. For example, who is going to pay to get their advertisement in a segment of anime? Do broadcasters have the data that can solicit them the right advertisers? That&#039;s on top of the general problem with digital delivery and ad-supported content in those channel, and things are still in an early stage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ad-supported stuff is great, but at the same time it doesn&#8217;t always work. Looking at the various revenue models, ad-supported broadcasts have some limitations which makes it difficult to work with most anime that we know of. Namely, it&#8217;s hard to make enough money to justify it.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s not even going into the problem with advertising itself. For example, who is going to pay to get their advertisement in a segment of anime? Do broadcasters have the data that can solicit them the right advertisers? That&#8217;s on top of the general problem with digital delivery and ad-supported content in those channel, and things are still in an early stage.</p>
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